Tuesday, April 27, 2010

Degrees of misery in hell.

In a recent Sunday School class my soteriology was called into question. I guess it would be helpful to explain that I am the only Calvinist in my Church. I attend and serve within the local "Church of God" (a Pentecostal denomination). While there are a handful of Calvinists within the denomination, it is predominantly an Arminian Church when it comes to the issue of salvation. Shortly after I started attending services at my Church I shared with my Pastor and with a couple other Sunday School teachers my beliefs about predestination. Like John Piper, I truly believe that the ministry of a Calvinist can flourish within an Arminian atmosphere and I have no plans of leaving the Church. I truly believe God has placed me where I am and I am content with this.

Well during the class I was given an opportunity to share my beliefs more openly before the teenagers and the married couple that leads the youth ministry. My belief in sovereign grace was contested and I found myself having to answer many of the common objections that are thrown at Calvinists. One person asked me, "If predestination is true and there is an elect, then what is the point of evangelism?" Since this conversation was very explosive and energetic (question after question surfaced, opinion after opinion was offered), I was unable to answer as thoroughly as I would have liked to. But I offered two quick answers to the question. My first answer was that we evangelize out of obedience to Christ. If God tells us to do something then we surely must obey. My second answer (perhaps not a typical response) was that I believe we should evangelize all people because perhaps our message of truth could influence the lost sinners of this world to sin less frequently than they already do, even if they were to never exercise saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Sinning less would mean a lesser degree of misery in hell.

My first answer seemed forgotten by the time my second answer was brought forth. Jim, the husband of the married couple, said something along the lines of "there is no such thing as a lesser degree of hell." I explained that if every sin will be brought into account and judged by God then the logic follows that those who have committed more sins would suffer more in hell than those who haven't sinned as frequently. I also added that hell will be miserable for all, but some would suffer more than others.

I've given this some more thought and I must say that I still stand by everything I said within that class, especially my comment about the varying degrees of misery for those in hell. I realize my opinion is worth nothing. I hope to express why I believe what I said is true using the most reliable and accurate source there is, the Holy Word of God.

In Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 we are given these words, "The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil." If God planned on giving equal judgements based on the state of our souls (lost or saved), there would be no need to bring EVERY deed or secret thing into judgement. We see we will be judged based on what we've done and if that is so, each judgement will differ from person to person.

If we turn to Matthew 10 we read of Jesus sending out the 12 disciples (starting in verse 5). He gives them some instruction before they depart.

"These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And proclaim as you go, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay. Acquire no gold nor silver nor copper for your belts, no bag for your journey, nor two tunics nor sandals nor a staff, for the laborer deserves his food. And whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy in it and stay there until you depart. As you enter the house, greet And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it, but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town."

Jesus then adds (verse 15), "Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town."

I'd like to discuss verse 15 a bit more. Notice that Jesus expresses variations in judgement here. Jesus plainly says that although the judgement for Sodom and Gomorrah was bad, it will be much more intense for the people that refuse to listen or receive His great message of truth. The Scriptures tell us Sodom and Gomorrah were both destroyed for their great wickedness (Genesis 19:24-25). Yet Christ says it will be more bearable for these people of great wickedness than it will be for those who have sinned by rejection of Christ. It seems as if Jesus believed that the suffering of those in hell would vary from person to person based on this scripture. You can also see the same point being made in the 11th chapter of Matthew.

Matthew 11:21-24 states, "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you." If it will be more tolerable for Sodom, how can there not be different degrees of misery?

Matthew 12:40-45 also speaks of differing conditions during the judgement. "For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here. The queen of the South will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, something greater than Solomon is here. "When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, but finds none. Then it says, 'I will return to my house from which I came.' And when it comes, it finds the house empty, swept, and put in order. Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and dwell there, and the last state of that person is worse than the first. So also will it be with this evil generation." Here again we see differing conditions for judgement and the last state of a person being worse than the first. If we will be judged not by what general state we are in (lost or saved) but by the sins and conditions of our heart, then we must believe that those whose last state is worse than their first will be judged more severely.

Let's also look at the parable of the faithful steward in Luke chapter 12, verses 42-44. We find Jesus talking about those who are Christians and live their lives in subjection to the will of God, prepared for the return of Christ.

"And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions."

Then Jesus informs us of what happens to those who were not ready for His return (the non Christians) in verses 45-48.

"But if that servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed in coming,' and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful. And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

Jesus specifically says that there will be two types of beatings, a severe beating and a light beating. Here again we see Jesus expressing that judgement will be issued based on the behaviors and attitudes we've expressed and that not all judgements will be the same. Though both judgements are miserable, there seems to be a lesser degree of misery.

James 3:1 speaks of stricter judgement for false teachers of the Word. "Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness." How can judgement be stricter if it does not vary? Again we see that there will be different degrees of misery for those in hell based on our deeds.

"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them." This scripture found in 2 Peter 2:20-21 tells us that we will even be held accountable for our knowledge of the truth. Those who have rejected the truth will be worse off than those who have never known the truth. We can assume they will be worse off in hell. Here again we see various degrees of misery.

One of the strongest cases for the degrees of misery is found in Revelation 20:13. "And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done." Notice that those who are judged are not being judged for the state they are in (saved or lost), but they're judged according to what they've done. Judgement for these people will not be equal, nor will the degree of misery be equal. How do we know this? Because we know that not everyone in the world has sinned an equal amount of times, nor have they all committed the same sins.

I'd like to leave you with a short excerpt from "Theology in Dialogue" by John H. Gerstner because the author explains the subject more clearly than I do. I greatly enjoyed reading this book and Gerstner's teachings were used to open my eyes to many Biblical truths. The book is a conversation between a Christian and an unbeliever (both sides portrayed by Gerstner). In chapter 20 the Christian (C) and the inquirer (I) are discussing degrees of misery in hell. The Christian has expressed that there will be less cursedness for some unsaved people in hell.

"C: Since there are gradations in hell, then every sin that is avoided in this world will not be punished in the world to come. As our Lord says, every idle word will be brought into judgement. If idle words are avoided, then that will mean much less judgement.

I: But we must still face the fact that hell is hell. Everybody is going to be perfectly miserable there!

C: Yes. But the whole meaning of degrees in hell is that some people will have greater degrees than others.

I: But if you are perfectly miserable, what difference does it make what degree of misery you have?

C: Think about it for a moment. If God does say that every idle word will be judged, does that not mean that God will bring every idle word into judgement? One idle word will receive it's judgement and the next idle word will receive its judgement. If God says that, manifestly, He can deliver on that threat. So you can be sure that three idle words will receive three times the intensity of the divine fury than just one idle word would. It is perfectly true that the power of His anger is beyond human comprehension. If that is beyond human comprehension, the gradations of it may well be beyond human comprehension. One thing we can comprehend is Check Spellingthis: If God is going to punish every idle word, then He is going to punish it and make it felt. How He does it may be a mystery, but we know that He can do it. Consequently, it is important to keep the number of those idle words (and other sins) to a minimum, even if a person does perish."

10 comments:

Anonymous said...

I wonder if one might come at this from another direction. It seems that rejecting the gospel itself would add to one's punishment.

If Unconditional Election (UE) is true, and an unregenerate person rejects the gospel of Jesus Christ (but not in the sense that if he "accepted" it he could be saved) does that not in and of itself incur more punishment? And the more one hears the gospel the more opportunities one has to reject it and add to one's total punishment.

Or, if one could "accept" the gospel (and the fact that they aren't pre-eternally elected for that salvation) why waste one's life in despair, being unable to be saved?

If I knew that I was not elected for salvation but knew the truth of the gospel, the only logical thing to do to not incur more punishment would be to commit suicide (that being a sin as well but at least the last sin committed) as opposed to the untold potential if I lived to the ripe old age of 75.

I'm not sure the best way to share the gospel is to say "Commit suicide so that you don't add to your eternal punishment". But unless there's another option (doing good isn't one of those options thanks to total depravity) it seems that suicide would be best.

And on the off chance I was wrong about my election, being saved instead of condemned, all I've done is shortened my earthly sufferings.

Just some thoughts about punishment that entered my mind while reading your post. Nobody need engage them.

Also, did anyone ask any questions regarding the exegesis of various passages or were these questions rather juvenille, as they seemed to be from your post. Maybe there were some; you did say they were fired shotgun style at you.

Christina said...

I would agree that if the unregenerate person rejected the Gospel that he or she would incur more punishment. So yes, the more time we waste rejecting the Gospel or hardening our hearts whenever conviction may come is only going to make it worse for us assuming we never got saved.

I fully understand your question and I think it's very interesting. However we barely know our own plans, let alone God's. To assume that we will never be saved is foolish. We don't know. In the same way that we are unable to bring about our own salvation, we are also unable to know the future in a definitive way.

I'm in no way advocating suicide to avoid a more severe punishment. I said I believe hell will be miserable for all. Whether we have a degree of misery that is light in comparison to another makes no difference, at the end of the day it's still hell. Our end goal should be to do whatever is humanly possible to avoid such a place.

Also, I'm not using this truth as a way to share the Gospel. Some people use the moral law, others like a technique called "The Romans Road." I believe God can be glorified by simple conversation, letters, or just moments of silence. He is more than able to use any and every thing under the sun as a means of evangelism. I certainly do not go around telling people that they're making things worse for themselves. The only reason this even came up is because I believe it personally motivated me as one of many reasons to evangelize.

Doing good won't save anybody whether we believe in total depravity or not. This isn't an issue that is specific with ones soteriology. Arminians and Calvinists alike can agree that we are not saved by our works. We can also agree that degrees of hell could be a motivation to witness.

I'm in no way a hyper-Calvinist and I think you're taking a very extreme view here. Could the person be wrong about their election and actually be saved, and then commit suicide? I don't see how that's possible. How can someone be saved, have faith, remain in repentance, display the fruits of a Christian, and still believe they're lost? Also, if they were saved and it was unknown to them, they why did they commit suicide? Because of two reasons:

1. They were suffering from a dark depression and it's likely that the Spirit of God did not dwell in them.

2. They were willfully sinning and thinking they know better God (which would also lead me to think they weren't saved).

It sounds like you want to throw out a lot of speculation as if you could fully know the mind of God. As for me, I'll stick to the truth of Scripture. I apologize if that comes off as offensive. With this being an anonymous comment I have a few reasons to be cautious about replying (something tells me I know the person that wrote this). If I'm wrong, my apologies.

Nobody asked for an exegesis of various scriptures in support of the degrees of misery in hell. It was very much a shotgun styled firing that I quickly had to reply to if I wanted to answer the many other questions flooding in. Since this class I would think that Jim (the Sunday School leader) may have changed his mind about this subject. I haven't received a definite answer from him though. There has been some talk about scheduling a Calvinist/Arminian debate though so I'll be sure to keep you posted how that goes.

Abraham said...

I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to make it sound like you were a hyper-calvinist. Like I said, I was just running through some thoughts that popped into my head. I can usually bring up some fairly random things from time to time.

I hope you aren't cornered into this debate. I mean, if it's just you on one side and 98% of the rest of the church on the other, it seems like everyone will be shotgunning you and nobody asking questions to the other side with which they already agree with. I find that rather one sided and unhelpful. Someone asking questions of the Arminian that are challenging may make people rethink what they believe based on the question asked and the answer given. I wish you luck in that venture if it is you who will be participating.

I apologize for the anonymousness (is that a word?). I don't use Blogger or Google mail and I follow the blogs that I follow by making links on below my address bar. I found your blogger through searching, finding links and running back and forth through stuff. Rather random, I'd say. But I do appreciate the use of Scripture throughout.

Abraham

Christina said...

Oh alright. Yeah sorry about that. I have a few friends that disagree with me when it comes to soteriology and I thought that they were just using this blog as a way to mess with me. Lol. Paranoid I know, but when it seemed to be more focused on Calvinism rather than the degrees of hell I got suspicious.

As for the debate, I'm still not sure if and when this will actually happen. Just recently the Pastor and youth Pastor have expressed some concern about my beliefs that differ from the traditional view of the Church of God. I think it would be wise to have the debate just so both sides could present what it is they actually believe. But as much as I hate to say it, in most Churches theology isn't something that is celebrated and discussed in depth. A good friend recently said that most Protestant Churches take a "Pope-like approach" when it comes to what they believe. If it's been said, we don't question it. Hopefully my Church will be open in hearing an alternative view, even if they never come to accept it.

Abraham said...

Your comment on the "Pope-like" view of the Church made me think of a quote I read from a Catholic priest or bishop some time ago. He said, "everyone in America is Protestant, even the Catholics". Random, I'm sure, but somehow my brain made the connections.

I would agree that there are different levels of torment in hell, regardless of one's soteriology. Had you not made the Calvinist connection, I'm sure I would not have either.

Abe

Abraham said...

I only brought up what I did regarding suicide because I'm familiar with some folks (mostly from what others have told me in confidence) who actually believe that UE is true and that they are reprobate.

They despair over not being saved and being forever lost. None to my knowledge have committed suicide; that to me just seems like a logical consequence of the state of these people. As far as bearing fruit, repenting, etc. I can't say that one way or the other, these folks do these things or don't do these things. Christians really can backslide and sin greatly whether or not you can't see how they would. Being saved isn't a lightning strike that makes you super-perfect-ne'r-do-wrong-holy-man. So whether you can see it happening or not doesn't give any justification that it can't. Ah well, it just seems to me that if you're going to suffer in hell, why suffer more? Ten points on the "scale o' pain" is certainly less than 20, no matter if hell is hell, no matter who you are.

Abe

Ikonophile said...

Also, I don't think our differences lie in soteriology as much as in God Himself. Of course, this stretches to all aspects of theology, including salvation.

Ikonophile said...

It's funny that we share three beliefs (four, actually):

1. Hell is real, not a metaphor for something like annihilation or whatever.

2. It is painful.

3. It is eternal.

4. (which could be part of number 2), it will have varying degrees

The funny part is how different our views of hell really are. They are not just superficially, but fundamentally different.

Always makes me laugh a bit.

John

Christina said...

It's funny you say that Abraham. I once knew a guy that was fully convinced he was reprobate with no hope of salvation. This was years ago, before I even really understood the soteriological debates that exist. I was an Arminian by default I guess you could say. I remember I argued with him about this subject and he just slaughtered me the Scriptures supporting the Calvinistic viewpoint. I was furious!! He never did explain why he felt this way. Truthfully, he may or may not have been elect. But he was so confident about things. To me it seemed as if he used this idea as a license to live in sin and not really try to walk the straight and narrow way. And I do believe people can backslide, yes, even Christians. I hope I didn't suggest otherwise. Abraham you should start a blog on here.

Christina said...

Agreed Ikonophile. There is some common ground. I'm glad we can now admit this lol.